Comments for Open Letter responding to the recent actions of the New Wineskins at http://pres-outlook.com , comment 1 to 4 out of 4 comments http://pres-outlook.com Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:23:52 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://pres-outlook.com/opinion/commentary/4237.html#comment-3136 Tom, Thanks! Having spent some time in the RCA and knowing something about the CRC, the drive for purity is chasing after fool's gold. It's been a fatal flaw in our ranks since our inception - when we trumped ecclesial relationships with theological camps. The heart of love is humility, and humility is the heart of kindness and grace toward one another. Each of us has only a portion of the truth; together, in faith, hope AND LOVE, the whole truth claims us, and Christ is His name, not dogma or catechism. And if numbers prove merit, then Jesus was clearly wrong to challenge the orthodoxy of Jerusalem. Sure, we have much to learn, who doesn't. But woe to those who claim exclusive title to be the 'teacher' while demeaning those who 'need to learn.' We've all been there and done that - usually in our younger years. Maturity, however, brings grace in most instances - e.g Billy Graham. For others, only a hardening of the mind and heart. Blessings, Tom Eggebeen Interim Pastor First Presbyterian Church Harbor Springs, MI 49740 - Tom Eggebeen Thu, 15 Mar 2007 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.com/opinion/commentary/4237.html#comment-3115 I have tried to read every statement available from New Wineskins and other, similar groups. In the end, I could not find one compelling argument. To illustrate, there is quite a lot of focus on the scrupling concept. Those opposed to it declare that we have altered ordination standards. But this argument is full of holes. Yes, I'm aware of the presbytery that has taken one of the PUP authors under its care and of this individual's comments about what PUP has allowed him to do. Such challenges and opinions are nothing new; the fact remains that nothing has changed in our ordination standards. Furthermore, the Layman--true to its usual biased perspective--and similar organizations have accused the PCUSA of redefining the Trinity. Anyone who has bothered to read the study that was presented to the last General Assembly would know that this is a bold-faced lie. The Trinity has not been redefined, it has merely been suggested that Christians might benefit from learning about the myriad of ways to relate to and speak of God. Frankly, if people want to leave the PCUSA bad enough, bless them and let them go. I just wish that, in leaving, the disputants would do so without spreading such grossly inaccurate facts. Of course, there is one thing I find humorous in all of this. PCUSA churches wishing to unite with the EPC refuse to accept scrupling in regard to such things as gay/lesbian ordination. But the EPC embraces a philosophy of not arguing over 'non-essentials' (though, it seems one might be apt to squabble over what ought be categorized as 'essential' and 'non-essential'). Ironic, isn't it? - Scott Nesbitt Fri, 09 Mar 2007 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.com/opinion/commentary/4237.html#comment-3106 'I don't think God gives any person or interest group the whole understanding of divine truth. Perhaps purposely God gives each of us a different piece so that we must rely on each other.' - Amen! I wish more of us would allow ourselves to be enriched by traditions we otherwise wouldn't agree with. As a young pastor one thing that grieves me is when I see people in our denomination failing to be challenged by each other and by other traditions, assuming that we, as God's Chosen, have no need of the insights or ways of knowing God of those who disagree with us. I saw a lot of prejudice on both sides in seminary, and it's a shame. - David Baker Thu, 08 Mar 2007 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.com/opinion/commentary/4237.html#comment-3097 I think the OPC is a phenomenal denomination! I have the greatest respect for their strong stand upon the solid rock of the gospel and for their love of missions done in the Reformed faith. We have MUCH to learn from these dedicated servants of Jesus Christ in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. I am also thankful to God that our OPC brothers and sisters have taken the difficult and rewarding path of preserving the truths of the Refomation for the 21st century, where we have failed. Their seminaries of Westminster in Philadelphia and Westminster California are bastions of both solid evangelical and Reformed thinking but they are making an impact in America for Christ. Thanks be to God for the Orthodox Presbyterian Church and all of our brothers and sisters in the PCA, ARPC and EPC. They are my encouragement in these dark days for the PCUSA. PS--They're growing and planting new churches all throughout the USA! In about 50 years, they'll probably overtake us in numbers, the way we are going today! - Toby Brown Wed, 07 Mar 2007 12:00:00 +0100