Comments for To "ruling" elders in the Presbyterian Church, USA at http://pres-outlook.com , comment 1 to 3 out of 3 comments http://pres-outlook.com Wed, 07 Jan 2009 05:56:15 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://pres-outlook.com/opinion/commentary/4548.html#comment-3246 I am pleased Tom Gray responded to my letter to "Ruling Elders" and want all to know my wife, Wauhilla, and I continue to wish the Kirk of the Hills and its congregation the best of everything. My objective has been and will continue to be building up not tearing down the holy catholic church and regardless of whether churches disaffiliate or leave under guidelines of the Presbyterian Book of Order I hope those churches can and will be successful in doing God's bidding as revealed in Scripture. My letter was intended solely to assist active and inactive elders in the nurture and protection of churches remaining in our denomination particularly the smaller congregations. First, the Kirk congregation was given a multitude of reasons for leaving the Presbyterian denomination throughout 2005 and 2006, up to the time of the meeting when the vote to disaffiliate was passed. However, I do not recall the Kirk congregation being given anything more than general information regarding the future with a possible association in the Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC). This is why I made the assertion that the "...church was focusing on what they were running away from with little or no regard as to what they might be running toward". We are told the Kirk intends to remain in the fold of a Reformed denomination and that is good. However, if an old inactive Ruling elder may good naturedly offer instruction from his Book of Order the entire phrase is "Ecclesia reformata, semper reformanda," that is, "The church reformed, always reforming," and that brings me to my second point. I tried in my letter to draw attention to the fact that any major denomination in this age of TV, text messaging, web-logs and Internet is at a distinct disadvantage to a stand alone congregational church or even a smaller denomination where notoriety is far less pronounced. For example, cumulative effects of certain democratically inspired albeit controversial Overtures being lobbied for by minority factions under the rubric of "semper reformanda" have received much press and attention and surely caused damage to Presbyterian Church, USA. Yet, foibles within a congregational church escape widespread notice until the pastor or staff does something really outlandish or illegal. But, when a crisis does occur in a congregational church without oversight and proper governance the results can be most devastating even for a mega-church. We witnessed such a congregational catastrophe happen here in Tulsa within the last two years. Third, I love coffee and doughnuts. I just think eating and drinking are inappropriate when done in a worship service. My journey in the Presbyterian denomination before joining the Kirk in 1974, has taken me from Staunton, Massanetta and Blacksburg, Virginia to Muskogee, Oklahoma to Conway, Russellville and Fort Smith, Arkansas then Melbourne, Australia and finally Tulsa, Oklahoma. Because of our daughter being an ordained Presbyterian, USA, pastor I have since been exposed to Presbyterian churches and Presbyteries in Texas, Tennessee, Kentucky, Michigan and Illinois. Hence, description of Presbyterian churches in my letter to "Ruling elders" was intended to be a composite of some of the problems I observed both inside and outside the denomination plus many of my anticipated fears. I had no intention of my words being regarded solely as description of the Kirk or any other individual church. Finally, I take my stand once again in the position that there is a sinner in every pulpit and a sinner in every pew regardless of church or denomination. I end as I began with the hope to build up Christ's church as represented by the Presbyterian Church, USA. And, I hope we all refuse any temptation to tear down or to insult any Christian church regardless of its denomination or affiliation and that certainly includes the Kirk of the Hills. As long as we are all studying the same Bible, praying to and working for the same God and looking forward to the same goal our efforts will yield that which is eternally good -- Thanks be to God! William E. Diggs - William Diggs Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.com/opinion/commentary/4548.html#comment-3240 I am the former pastor referred to by William Diggs in his letter 'To 'ruling' elders....' Bill Diggs and his wife Wauhilla are both fine people with great integrity. The fact that our disaffiliation with the PCUSA forced them to align with a church remaining in the denomination brings no joy to me--I understand their rationale, even if I disagree with some specifics in it. Bill's perspective leaves some impressions that I feel I must correct. Kirk of the Hills did not leave the denomination with no idea of where we were going. We were then and are continuing the process of becoming a part of the EPC, a Reformed denomination holding membership in the World Alliance of Reformed Churches. We did start using PowerPoint illustrations in sermons, starting several years ago. I know that this offended the Diggs' understanding of 'presbyterian' worship, but I stand by the change. All churche leaders must find ways of more clearly communicating the Gospel. We are in a visual culture--just ask younger people how much time they spend reading hard copy (books, newspapers) versus the time they spend watching movies, TV, or computer screens. Bill makes a statement that makes no sense to me, at least in the Kirk's context. He impies that we have 'live TV feeds of 'canned sermons.'' We have never done so at the Kirk and have no plans to do so. He also writes that we have 'coffee and doughnuts before every conventional and/or contemporary service. Every church I've served has done something like this. We did, though, centralize and emphasize this in recent years. One of the things we agree on is the fact that the PCUSA has deep problems. We simply disgree about the intensity and depth of them. The fact that 'Of course this negative message in my church was reinforced daily by newspaper, TV and Internet sensationalism regarding foibles within nearly every denomination in the country!' simply adds credence to what I was saying to my congregation. The upcoming constitutional crisis which FOG is addressing could make or unmake the PCUSA. It is an opportunity to return to its roots. it is also an open door that could lead to an abandonment of orthodox Christianity. I wish Bill and Wauhilla the best in their new church home. They are missed at the Kirk. Tom Gray Co-pastor Kirk of the Hills, Tulsa - Tom Gray Sat, 21 Apr 2007 12:00:00 +0100 http://pres-outlook.com/opinion/commentary/4548.html#comment-3238 I appreciate the letter. I have been told many times that there is no perfect congregation and, if I were ever to find one, the minute I joined it, it would no longer be perfect. I am presuaded that the same may be true of denominations. - Dennis Veith Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:00:00 +0100